Thursday, September 19, 2013
Thoreau, Caulfield, and McCandless Post 2
“The greatest gains of life are unappreciated. We easily come to doubt if they exist. We soon forget them. They are the highest reality….” How does this passage from Henry David Thoreau apply to both Holden and Christopher? You must properly embed and cite a quotation from the reading (pages 60-100). You must comment on another peer's response.
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Holden recognizes that he has Jane and Phoebe and he recognizes the relationship that he has with them but he does not realize the impact of the relationship he has with them and he isn't taking it in for all that it is worth. He thinks he is more alone than he actually is and he avoids utilizing these relationships for what their full potential is. "You never worried with Jane, whether your hand was sweaty or not. All you knew was, you were happy. You really were" (Salinger 79). He cares for both Jane and Phoebe and he is always worrying about them and wondering if they are ok but he doesn't realize how much he should appreciate these relationships, he doesn't recognize that this is a gain and he should appreciate it more than he is. He knows that he is happy when he is with Jane and Phoebe and he thinks about all of the things that he loves about them, but he doesn't recognize how important these relationships are.
ReplyDeleteHe thinks he is more alone than he actually is and he avoids utilizing these relationships for what their full potential is. "[He] never worried with Jane, whether [his] hand was sweaty or not. All [he] knew was, [he was] happy. [He] really [was]" (Salinger 79).
DeleteExactly. He's usually pretty concerned about what people think about him, but he doesn't worry as much about Jane. He knows she'll accept him no matter what.
DeleteThis quote is not only talking about successes in life but also failures. This quote applies to Holden and Christopher because they have had troubles with relationships: Chris with his family and friends he met along the way and Holden with his family and friends as well because he won't talk to them. Holden gained failures, like the friend of a "friend" he tried to hook up with, "I can't make it tomorrow" and things like that shaped him into a less caring person. But soon he will forget the gain because he has to forget they exist so he can keep on.
ReplyDeleteThis passage can relate to Holden and Christopher because they are both seeking self fulfillment, Christopher's tries to obtain this when he goes off on his own to immerse himself in nature to believe in the values he thought were worthwhile and pursue the ideals that he felt were important. I feel like the greatest value for Chris is self dependence and choice in his life. It is easily recognizable that other people do not believe in his choice and doubt that his "greatest gain" after his death when it is said that "Personally I see nothing positive at all about Chris McCandless's lifestyle or wilderness doctrine"(70). This clearly demonstrates the disbelief people had toward Chris and how it was his doctrine or highest reality.
ReplyDeleteHolden reflects a lot on his relationships with Jane and Phoebe. He takes their relationships with him for granted, in a way, just like McCandless does with his sister. Holden's seeking acceptance and love, but he doesn't realize that he has that right there at home. When the prostitute Maurice sent to his hotel room came, Holden saw her as a person and realized he didn't have any real connection with her, thinking when she took her dress off "I know you're supposed to feel pretty sexy when somebody gets up and pulls their dress over their head, but I didn't. Sexy was about the last thing I was feeling. I felt much more depressed than sexy" (Salinger 95). He realised he wasn't going to get love and acceptance from her; he would only fulfill an animal's hunger. McCandless also realized near the end that his relationships were essential to his happiness; he wrote in his journal about how loneliness is hell, which is paraphrased, considering I'm saying this from memory.
ReplyDeleteI agree they both are trying to attain what they already had with their own families.
DeleteBoth Holden and Chris don't appreciate the people that they have in their life. Both Chris and Holden had family that paid for their schooling, but they still don't appreciate them. When Holden is talking about his family he states "...because she was only a little kid and she wouldn't have been up, let alone anywhere near the phone. I thought of maybe hanging up if my parents answered..." (Salinger 67) Both Chris and Holden have families that clearly love them, but they don't appreciate them. Chris and Holden both seem to have more problems with their parents then their siblings. Later on the same page Holden talks about how smart his sister is, and Chris wrote a letter to his sister, So both Holden and Chris have problems with their family, especially their parents. Both don't appreciate their parents and all their parents have provided for them.
ReplyDeleteChris has had many academic accomplishments, such as graduating high school and college. He had a great family, a sister and parents who loved him enough to push him. But he hated life. He didn't believe that his parents were sincere in their affections for him, especially after learning about his father's affair. He writes to his sister that "since they won't ever take me seriously... I'm going to completely knock them out of my life" (64). He wants to be taken seriously and he never wanted to do anything that his parents asked him to do. He wants to do what he believes in and what interests him. His ultimate gain would be the accomplishment of one of his goals in life. He graduated high school and graduated college but he didn't want to do that. When he started hitchhiking across the country and started hiking and living the wilderness, he started doing things he wanted to do. People he had met always described him as stubborn, this is why. He finally is able to do what he wants and he will never let that go.
ReplyDeleteHolden, on the other hand, really wants to have relationships. That is his greatest goal. When he starts to feel lonely and depressed, as he puts it, he thinks about Jane and Phoebe, but he has trouble actually making these connections. He wants to get these relationships to a higher level, not just a friendship that they used to have or a little sister that he was close with. He wants these to be current, strong relationships but doesn't know how to go about making this happen.
DeleteHolden constantly looks for relationships and connections with other people. He often reflects on his interactions with Jane and Phoebe. The connections he has with those people are his "greatest gains" and much like the passage, he does not truly appreciate or even recognize them, for example, "Something went wrong, though--I don't even remeber anymore." (Salinger 92) He is sort of independent, a loner even, but the few connections he has are quite strong and meaningful to him. For Chris, his greatest gains seemed to be his failures and hardships. He definitely did not grow up with a comforting home life. From that let-down as a child, he could then figure out who wanted to be and what he wanted out of life, which was the turning point in his life. Again, he did not recognize his gains.
ReplyDeleteBoth Holden and Chris had things they weren't grateful for. For Holden, I think it was he had a lot of freedom. He had the freedom to wander around New York, stay in nice hotels, and do a lot of things he just wanted to do. For Chris, he didn't appreciate the lack of effort he had to put in to getting a job. He could find a lot any place, such as "mucking out warehouses, exterminating vermin, painting, scything weeds" Krakauer, 62. He had a lot of freedom finding jobs. i don't know, I just had to rewrite this and i give up
ReplyDeleteSome of the greatest gains in left are left unseen or unsaid. As for Chris, one of his greatest gains was given to him at birth, which was support. Chris had a great lifestyle, or at least a lifestyle a lot better than others. Chris doesn't really recognize that he had a good life and was set to be successful in the future, but Chris doesn't think this support exists. He says in the letter to Carine, "Since they won't take me seriously, for a few months after graduation I'm going to think they're right." (Krakauer 64) He is saying that he wants his parents to disown him, or rather to disown his parents. Holden is very much like Christopher in not recognizing that he has support. Holden's parents do everything to get him into a good school to help Holden succeed but Holden doesn't see it this way. He thinks his parents don't care that isn't the case.
ReplyDeleteHolden knowledges that Jane and Phoebe are giving him advice on things and he truly loves them, but doesn't take it in. He thinks through it, but doesn't like to knowledge that he needs to change. "I began my adult life with the hypothesis that it would be possible to become a Stone Age native. For over 30 years, I programmed and conditioned myself to this end. In the last 10 of it, I would say I realistically experienced the physical, mental, and emotional reality of the Stone Age. But to borrow a Buddhist phrase, eventually came a setting face-to-face with pure reality. I learned that it is not possible for human beings as we know them to live of the land." (75) I think that Chris knowledges that he has learned so many things in life, but he doesn't really appreciate them because he thinks that other people don't appreciate them so why should he. Chris is just living in his own little world, but only takes in what he thinks people also knowledge.
ReplyDelete